At the sharp end of policing

As part of a regular series the High&I is grilling borough police commander Barry Norman on a different crime issue each month. In the light of education secretary Charles Clarke's plans to give teachers the power to search pupils for weapons, we asked Chief Supt Norman about knife culture in Islington's schools.

Is there a knife-carrying culture among schoolchildren in Islington? I was shocked when I read about the National Youth Justice Board survey published recently where they think something in the order of 25 per cent of students carry penknives. In Islington five of our most high profile secondary schools are taking part with police in a project called Safer Schools. Since the summer from about 5,000 pupils we have only had two incidents of kids having weapons on them at school. In a perfect world two is too many but we don't live in a perfect world. Two incidents do not suggest 25 per cent of school kids in the borough carry knives.

Why do they feel the need to carry these knives? My experience is people carry knives for two reasons, one is because they feel unsafe and they have a miscomprehension it will make them safer. It will not make them safer in fact it will make them far more vulnerable to being involved in a serious scenario. The other reason is for bragging rights because it makes them feel tougher, they show it to their friends. Whether it is one reason or the other my officers won't forgive anyone for carrying a knife — they can expect no sympathy from us.

Is there a gang culture in the borough which is leading to increased knife use? In simple terms a lot of our young people associate themselves with a group that is based on where they actually live. In that respect you could perhaps describe these groups as being gangs but you do not have a West Side Story scenario going on in the borough. I think some people demonise our young people unfairly. The problem with Islington is there are simply not enough facilities for them and young people in groups tend to be looked at as hostile and threatening, when in reality they are just being like we were when we were young — it all needs to be kept in perspective.

What proportion of robberies involve knives? Out of 13,000 robberies in the last year, which is about 100 a month, 15 per cent involved a knife and in almost all of these it was used as a threat as opposed to someone being stabbed.

Are knives more of a problem among the young than guns? Simply because knives are far more available, it follows there could be described as being more of a problem. Islington is a relatively safe borough in respect of gun crime. There are only seven London boroughs with less gun crime than Islington.

What are the penalties for carrying a knife? It is dependent upon circumstances but if you are carrying a knife, get involved in an altercation and use it, you are almost certainly looking at a custodial sentence.

What should parents do if they are worried their child is carrying a knife? I am in danger of sounding like someone from the nanny state but it seems to me children need to be spot checked from time to time as I do to my children. Parents need to explain to their kids just how vulnerable they are to being criminalised by police or getting involved in a serious incident if they carry any sort of weapon let alone a knife. And if the youngster feels they need to carry a knife to be safe they shouldn't be letting them out — they should find out the reasons and tell the police.

Are there restrictions on youngsters buying knives? There is a moral obligation on shopkeepers not to sell knives to kids but not a legal obligation. The issue isn't about young people buying knives. People are often carrying knives which mum uses to cut up vegetables or a Stanley knife blade from dad's workshop. It is far more often something from within the home than a knife purchased from a shop.

26 November 2004

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