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Since it's founding in 1997, the CYC-Net discussion group has been asked thousands of questions. These questions often generate many replies from people in all spheres of the Child and Youth Care profession and contain personal experiences, viewpoints, as well as recommended resources.
Below are some of the threads of discussions on varying Child and Youth Care related topics.
Questions and Responses have been reproduced verbatim.
Listen to thisI currently work in a residential school in
Scotland. The majority of children are looked after and accommodated for
reasons mainly due to social, emotional and behavioural difficulties, which
are attributal (in my opinion) to abuse in the family home or similar
settings.
My experiences of such children particularly in relation to their
development is that often they struggle to cope with structure in their
lives and find it difficult to conform to boundaries and rules. When
boundaries are crossed and rules are broken (for example if young people
assault staff or property that does not belong to young people is damaged)
staff sometimes take the decision to get young people charged by the police.
Young people who enter into care through no fault of their should expect to
live in an environment that promotes their welfare, development and future
opportunities, after all for many young people the reason they are taken
into care in the first place is to prevent damage or harm to their health,
welfare and development. But then again staff have rights also.
Taking account that assault and damage to property would not normally be
tolerated in our society, should young people in care be charged with
similar behaviour given that they are in a situation whereby they have
people (workers) who care for them and have time to work through their
difficulties and problems with them in a controlled environment unlike some
other children in mainstream who do not? And if so, what favours are we as
workers doing for young people's futures when they eventually leave the care
system or are we setting them up to fail by being the people responsible for
the long arm of charges young people can accumulate whilst being in care.
This will undoubtably provoke a mixed response, but that is my intention. I
think readers may know my view or maybe not, however, I welcome and look
forward to other views and opinions.
Kind regards
J. Young
Final year social work student University of Strathclyde
...
I would suggest that the first challenges is to create a structured caring
environment in which these children are engaged in a rich menu of daily
activities and relationships to minimize the destructive behavior. If it
does occur, the consequence of course depends on the severity. My preference
is not to charge children but to convey to them with our personal authority
that what they did was wrong and then use our relationship to help them
rectify the situation--fix what was broken, pay back the offended, apologize
etc so that they can learn we care about them and their development as
persons, not as menaces to society. But then there are some very serious
offenses for which we have to involve the legal system.
Mark Krueger
...
Great question to pose!
In my humble opinion, I would say that you should not get the police
involved for behaviours of damaging property or fighting. I say this for the
simple reason that law enforcement has done as much for changing behaviours
as saying "have a nice day" has done for curing depression.
The youth you (and the majority of us) work with have learned behavioural
ways of coping with stressful situations in their world. I would suggest
that we all work toward creating safe and accepting environments where youth
who "screw-up" have the chance to restore justice.
A friend of mine who works in a group home, recently saw the removal of one
female adolescent after she engaged in a fight with another. The girl who
was removed had been living at this group home for years and called her
house parent "mom". The girl who she fought with was a friend of hers. The
fact is that this girl would have benefitted much more by staying in the
house and learning how to reconcile her differences with her friend. In the
end she had lost her home, her "mom", her friend, and her stability.
If you had a child of your own who was having a temper tantrum, and threw a
book threw a window, or fought a sibling, would you call the police?
I would recommend the book Risinghill: Death of a Comprehensive School,
by Leila Berg (Pelican Pub). 1968. Good luck, it will no doubt be out of
print. It is a wonderfully empowering book about a man who became the
principal of the toughest comprehensive school, in the most impoverished
area in London, England.
This man, Mr. Duane, upon receiving a new pupil who broke a window, paid the
student a five pound note. The boy did it again, and Mr. Duane paid him
another five pound note. The boy eventually stopped because he was not
getting the desired result he wanted (and I bet he felt a bit guilty). Mr.
Duane often gave his car keys to possible car thieves and asked them to move
his car, or get something from his bag in the trunk. He was successful
because he was a caring man who knew that every child was a trustworthy
individual.
A quote under the chapter Desperation in this book states, "These girls and
boys must somehow be made much more active partners in their own education".
This was a revolutionary statement for that time, when corporal punishment
was the way to keep kids in line with the norms. When we phone the police to
intervene with a troublemaking child, are we just passing off the corporal
punishment to someone else?
Do you play for the team that believes that all children are born with
inherent goodness, or sin?
Sorry for the length, I tend to ramble when such questions are posed.
Maddy
...
"Are we setting them up to fail by being the people responsible for the long
arm of charges young people can accumulate whilst being in care."
I think there have been incidents in every home that
could result in staff members contacting the police and often staff do not
so that they may discuss the issue and avoid having a child charged (and
let's be honest, it doesn't always look great on your shift exchange if you
call the police every day!) I think when staff do involve police there are a
few guidelines many follow such as;
1. It has been at a victim's request. As an advocate of all children in your
care it is important to follow through with the wishes of the victim as much
as it is to assist the agressor through their issues. If a client expressed
to me a desire to speak to police about being assaulted or bullied my
persoanal sense of responsibilty would orient myself towards helping that
client get over their attack. In all honesty I would also be thinking about
what kind of work I will need to do with the bully while the child talks
with the officer but I wouldn't be thrilled about it!
2. When staff members feel repeated poor choices and social interaction
skills are putting other children at risk. If I had a teen who assaulted
other teens in the group home on a daily or weekly basis and all I could do
was repeatedly restrain him AFTER he has ALREADY violated another child, I
may put the safety of the other teens ahead of that teens needs and urge the
police to charge him and recommend a secure or 1 to 1 placement for that
teen until he's able to be around other people safely? There is a belief
that many behavior issues arise in teens whose parents put little or no
controls in place for them. Losing all personal freedoms if even for a few
hours can be an eye-opening experience for some young people.
3. When it comes to staff laying assault charges, this one is a little touchy for me but I must start out by saying I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 220 pounds. I assume that we all understand there is a possibility that we may, at any given time, be attacked by a client. Many of us require restraint training before we're allowed to start our employment for that reason. 100 percent of restraints are initiated by staff people and I have heard of charges being pressed for struggles during a restraint. I believe that is inappropriate as we have initiated the physical contact with an expectation that the youth may fight back. If a child or teen walked up to a staff person (OR ANY PERSON) and punched them in the face or kicked their legs out from under them I may consider contacting police?
It's probably different around the world but I know in Edmonton, filling out a statement for the police and reporting a crime does not always result in charges being laid, police investigate and determine when charges are laid, not the youths involved. Their statements allow officers to make an informed decision and move on when it's appropriate to do so. I would stop any talk of "so and so got ______ charged. No they didn't, they reported a crime and the police charged him because it was illegal. Period.
Brian LaBelle
...
If we do not have them charged we are setting them up for a major setback
once they are in the community. The staff will assist in any way possible,
going to court, ensuring they follow through on the expectations, but to not
charge them would be unreasonable.
Linda Windjack
...
This is a good topic! I work in a residential setting also, in Alberta,
Canada. I have been there for 20 years and have seen both of which you
mention. Understandably, our kids come from situations that are unacceptable
however, allowing them to destroy property or intentionally harm staff is in
my opinion unacceptable. Part of which we do is teach responsibility for
themselves and the world and people around them. If they are allowed to get
away with violence, are we not reinforcing their belief that this is how the
world works?
At our centre, for young people who destroy property we have restitution.
They pay back what they owe in the form of extra chores that take time based
on the cost of the destroyed item. We do not take money as their allowance
is often the only form of money they get! They learn that they cannot get
away with wrecking something and the chores, (not hard labor I might
add!)are often a deterant to future tantrums. We also process with them
their anger and the reality that they have ruined something that other kids
as well as themselves can no longer enjoy.
As for violence towards staff, we are encouraged not to charge children as
their anger is often directed towards their former abusers and it's not your
face they see when they act out. However, all situations must be looked at
on an individual basis. If the injury occured during a restraint or an
episode of impulsive acting out that they may not have control over (and
lets face it, we see more kids with Fetal Alcohol these days who are missing
that control mechanism), then the incident should be documented and put on
file. For those kids who we know have control but deliberately intend to
hurt staff (and those of us who have been around long enough can tell the
difference) should be charged. I have worked with kids who have managed to
be "saved" from their actions who have ended up murdering/raping or
otherwise done serious harm to others because they were never held
accountable for their previous behavior. At the very least, a critical
incident report needs to be done and forwarded to their caseworker for their
file. To many times I have seen innocent people affected after the fact
because, in the belief that the best interest of the child is paramount.
Sometimes, what is in their best interest, is to hold them accountable, as
we all are to laws and norms of society.
We also have a wonderful crisis management program in place for the staff
whereby we can arrange to debrief with one of our psycholgists the incident
and solutions. This is a recent addition to our program thanks to a previous
Director who could not believe that with the stressful work we do, we did
not have an outlet!
I should clarify that our Centre takes the kids that have already been
through kinship care, foster homes and group homes.
Shawn Lechelt
...
Dear J. Young
The question of charging children comes up regularly in Ireland. What I
often say is, I know nothing about lions. If I put myself in a cage with a
lion in Dublin Zoo, sooner or later I will get bitten, because that is what
lions do! It is my view that if I put myself in that situation without
adequate training, it is unfair and unreasonable to blame the lion when I
get bitten.
Many of the children in residential care have experienced varying degrees of
emotional and/or physical abuse neglect and maltreatment. All of the
literature tells us that these children will have distorted perceptions of
reality, poor conscience development and may present with behavioural
difficulties. In Ireland 56% of the poeple working with these children have
no formal training, ask yourself is it reasonable then to blame the children
when they present with the behaviour thet one would or should expect, if the
staff cannot adequately deal with it? The situation is further complicated
when staff are competant but institutional diffficulties mitigate against
adequate care.
Regards,
John Byrne
...
My problem with questions like this is that we so often end up talking about
a "child in care" as a static and undifferentiated phenomenon instead of
talking about individuals like Charley Smith or Brenda Brown. Example:
Charley has been admitted to care because his aggressive behaviour has put
him at risk of getting involved with the juvenile justice system. On the
first night he is with us he punches Jimmy White on the nose -- so we charge
him with assault! Why on earth did we admit him? What responsibility have we
taken for working with Charley on his aggression problem? This is like
admitting a physically ill patient to our ward with the words "Welcome to
our hospital – but God help you if you get sick in here!"
A "child in care" is a function of his or her developmental history, family,
community and school background, reasons for admission (and our acceptance
of the youth!) into our program, status (in terms of who is responsible
right now for his or her safety, treatment, etc ... and so on.
If we are playing fair with Charley, there may well come the day when we
have engaged with him, taken the trouble to get to know him and understand
him, provided him with the support, affection, information and discipline
which he needs to play the role of a fifteen-year-old boy (or whatever) and
after we have walked the journey with him he still punches Jimmy White on
the nose -- and then he can take his chances with the law.
We all know that we don't accept a troubled kid into our program and simply
tell him to behave like a normal, moral and obedient kid (a complex
oxymoron). There is a period when we are figuring each other out. There is a
period when we are working together on some targets and tasks, there is a
period of trial and error, there is a period of trial runs where he is
trying to fly solo with his newly gained insight and skills ... and
eventually there is a time when we have passed responsibility back to him.
At what point are we going to lay criminal charges?
BG
...
I work in a special care unit for teenage girls in Ireland. I guess when it
comes to the question posted "should youngsters in care be charged" I would
say depending on the situation. We have clients who assault staff just
because they believe they can. These teenage girls are in the unit as a last
resort--to make positive life changes, etc. Most of these girls are
high-risk individuals who cannot keep themselves safe. Some of them may be
very proactive in their aggression--calculating, knows exactly what they are
doing. Others may be reactive. Learned behaviour can be unlearned--modified,
managed. But some of these girls chooses not to change because for them
being aggressive and abusive is the only way they can get attention or to
get what they want. As I have mentioned, they assault because they believe
that staff cannot hit them back. Despite countless life space interviews and
informing them that their behaviour is unacceptable, these youth still
continue to assault.
One staff member went home with a broken nose and nearly choked to death,
the other was bitten and one more kicked at the back of the knee. The youth
was aware of what she was doing and made continuous threat to staff members
about the damage that she can do and that next time, she will murder the
staff. These girls are only one step from going to prison but were given a
chance to manage their behaviour. Yes we need to establish rapport and yes
we need to to show them that we care. At the end of the day, we are not
their parents but care workers. If we are to make them live a normal life,
we also need to show them that assault in the outside world--for us the
everyday world we live in will result to being incarcerated.
Emie
...
I need to comment on some of the replies!
Maddy, while I admire your optimism, I need to ask, "Do you honestly believe
there are no situations where kids should be charged?" Your final statement,
" Do you play for the team that believes that all children are born with
inherent goodness, or sin?" Can you clarify what you mean by that? I truly
hope we all come into this field believing in the inherent goodness of
children, however, there truly are kids who are beyond our scope of help.
Whether it's Fetal alcohol, severe abuse that leads to severe personality
disorder or family genes. Those with Fetal alcohol (depending on severity)
require constant maintenance for their lifetime because they will NEVER
develope certain tools needed to function in our society. Personality
disorder, schizophenia, psychosis, bi-polar require mental health
intervention. As a Child Care Worker, I would never presume to believe I can
help some of these kids without consultaion from a medical expert, i.e.
psychologist or psychiatrist. I am a behavioral expert and can be a great
resource when offering behavioral techniques in conjunction with others.
However, to believe that by unconditional caring I can "help" them, I would
have burned out a long time ago and probably done damage to some kids as
well!
John B. At our centre, you can't even get an interview if you don't have a
diploma in Child Care or related sciences i.e. psychology. I do interviews
from time to time and even people with a criminal justice background don't
get hired because they don't have that behavioral intervention teaching that
is so important when working with our kids.
B.G. We are not allowed to say no to any child in need. They come to us, we
can assess and refer but if a placement is not available, we are it! We
develop individual programs based on their need while they are with us: one
to one or other specialized interventions. Meanwhile, we work with other
resources to find them placements that would best meet their needs as soon
as possible.
I consider myself fortunate to work where I do. The average years of
employment at our centre is between 2 and 25 years! The majority being in
the upper years! Knowledge is passed down to newer employees and they in
turn teach what they have learned. We welcome students from Child Care
Programs such as Grant MacEwen and the University of Alberta. I like to call
us a teaching residential program. We have even had students from Holland
come for field placements that last a year. They get a real education and
eye opening experiences! Alot of upper management people have worked at our
centre also, prior to moving up and on. They understand what is needed to
not only look after the children we deal with but also the staff needs.
I realize that other programs here and around the world are not as lucky
however, it has been the staff that have made our centre into what it is
today with commitment, speaking up for the rights of the kids in our care
and our own rights as Child Care Workers.
Do no further harm.
Shawn Lechelt
...
Good afternoon:
There are a couple of questions I ask before even entertaining the idea of
having a youth charged with a crime. 1. How old is the youth, not only is
age but developmental level? 2. What is the duration, intensity and
frequency of the behavior and has it escheated or diminished over time and
with interventions? 3. Is this behavior related to a mental health issue,
emotional disturbance? 4. Is this a copied behavior that may be tolerated in
the home to a lesser degree?
I am not opposed to having older youth charged. We do this frequently with
youth who may meet the criteria. By so doing you are documenting the level
of damage to property and harm to self or others. In most cases the court
will ask what we think would be the most appropriate consequence and follow
our recommendation. This may also be important if it is necessary to make a
future determination of an appropriate placement.
Here is the sad part of all this talk of charges, it may be that the only
means of getting the services the youth needs is through the juvenile
justice system. While this is all wrong in approach and philosophy it may be
the case never the less. I just had this happen once more this last week. We
have a young person who was seriously abused when a child get a hold of some
scissors. After a great deal of time trying to talk them in to handing the
scissors over the police had to intervene and take them away safely. During
the next four hours we tried to stabilize them at the hospital. The police
had to restrain the youth 4 more times, this is a big kid. After all this
the hospital and the mental health worker could not come to the conclusion
that a psych bed is necessary for safety reasons. The police then offered to
place the youth in detention. I said no, kids like this need to be in a
mental health placement. The police offered to have her charged since she
resisted and was combative with them on 5 different occasions during this
ordeal. I am glad to report that we did get her in to a psych hospital bed
and did not have to have her charged or placed in detention. If we had not
gotten this bed I believe we would have had to place her in detention just
to maintain her safety. This does happen. No it is not good, but it is
reality.
Larry James
...
I’d like to pick up on John Young’s query and subsequent responses about
getting kids charged. It was one I had to grapple with on a fairly regular
basis as a manager in residential school and secure accommodation settings.
I’ll start by saying that there are a few situations where I think we have
little option but to involve the police and to get kids charged; situations
where there has been a deliberate and serious attempt to hurt a member of
staff and where we have responsibilities as citizens to ensure that such
offences are appropriately marked.
However, these situations are few and far between in most facilities. What
we generally face is low level intimidation or the odd blow struck in anger
or distress. Unpalatable though these may be I’m not sure police involvement
is the answer. Here’s a few reasons why;
The desire to have kids charged is often framed in terms of it being in a
kid’s best interests (although if we were to be honest it’s also often based
on a more primitive desire for retribution of some sort). It’s also based on
a well-entrenched but mistaken view of the value and importance of
deterrence – kids need to begin to learn the consequences of their actions
to be able to cope with the realities of adult life so the refrain goes.
However, all the literature in our field tells us that the kids we work with
don’t respond to simple cause and effect approaches (if indeed any of us
do). Behaviours are more deeply rooted than that.
Getting kids charged doesn’t confront them with the consequences of their
actions. In Scotland, a charge results in referral to the Children’s
Reporter. If a kid is already in a residential facility the likelihood is
they will remain there, picking up more and more charges perhaps but with no
tangible change to their circumstances or their behaviours. So nobody is
happy. Kids are criminalised and angry at staff for doing this to them and
staff are increasingly impotent over what to do next – they've shot their
bolt to little avail. (The issue of kids becoming criminalised in care
settings is a very real one in Scotland, where many of those deemed to be
persistent offenders – silly though this definition itself may be – fit this
bill as a result of charges picked up in care. And once a kid has a series
of charges behind them they begin to feel that they are destined to take the
next step in the criminal justice system. So rather than stopping them, the
accumulation of charges can in fact propel them further through the system).
Another problem I have with getting kids charged is that it separates the
care from the control functions in bringing up kids. It passes over the
control to police and external authorities and so diminishes the importance
of staff taking and modelling appropriate control. Rather than buttressing
staff’s control and authority, police involvement is more likely to
undermine it.
Involving the police can also leave situations hanging and unresolved. It
can serve to avoid or inhibit the powerful moments in the aftermath of a
situation where adult and kid can discuss and resolve situations and move
forward together. That outcome empowers staff more than the felt need to
bring in an external authority.
None of this is to diminish the feelings of powerlessness and abuse staff
can feel in many situations they encounter. The desire to get kids charged
stems from these very real feelings of powerlessness. It doesn’t do anything
to remedy them. This has to come at an earlier point. Staff should not be
put in a position where they feel they are punchbags, with no right to
self-defence in aggressive or violent situations. They need to feel
empowered to deal authoritatively and at an appropriate point with
situations, before these become violent and abusive. Factors such as
superficial perceptions of children’s rights, de-escalation taken to the
point of capitulation, our fixation with child protection, and defensive
organisational responses contribute to the current state where staff feel
victimised and downtrodden and have nothing left in the locker other than to
phone the police. This is rarely in their interests or those of the kids.
Mark Smith
