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Since it's founding in 1997, the CYC-Net discussion group has been asked thousands of questions. These questions often generate many replies from people in all spheres of the Child and Youth Care profession and contain personal experiences, viewpoints, as well as recommended resources.
Below are some of the threads of discussions on varying Child and Youth Care related topics.
Questions and Responses have been reproduced verbatim.
Listen to thisHello, My name is Candice and I am in 2nd year
of Child and Youth Care in Malaspina U. in Nanaimo, B.C.
I am very interested in getting some answers and information about
"Abortion being a form of Child Abuse". I have to write a paper and I
choose this topic, I have no idea where I can get information, I don't
even know if it would be considered a type of abuse and if so why isn't
it as a Child and Youth Care main topic. For me, my beliefs and values it is a type of
abuse and I would love to look in to it. If hitting a child is so bad.
why isn't killing a child even worse? Why is abortion legal and spanking
a child not?
As you can see I have a few questions and confusion in my mind. Can you
help me out?
Thanks!
Candice Macdonald
Nanaimo, B.C.
...
The first fundamental question you may face
when approaching that paper topic is the issue of when life begins. That
tends to be where a majority of the debate lies when it comes to
abortion. Those who believe life begins at conception are going to have
a significantly different opinion than those who believe life begins at
birth (or at any other point than conception, i.e. the second
trimester). And if life begins at conception, then does the fetus have
all the same human rights as a "non-fetus"? My opinion would be that you
need an answer to that question before looking into whether or not
abortion should be considered abuse.
What if the pregnancy itself is the result of child abuse? Do the
mother's rights trump those of the fetus' or vice versa?
It's definitely an interesting discussion, especially considering it's
one that comes up so frequently with youth in care. I'd be interested to
see how it varies across cultures and societies as well... Good luck!
Evelyn Downie
YCW in Dartmouth, NS
...
Hi Candice
You bring up a very valid point and I commend you on your choice of
topics.
This will be a difficult one to get a lot of support. My moral values
are the same. Now, abortion is one thing and definitely the extreme of
abuse to the child but you may want also to think about feeding the
child excessive drugs, alcohol etc, through umbilical feeding tube, a
source of abuse, even if the mother wanted to keep the baby when it was
born. Have you thought about contacting the "Right to Life" organisation
for more on this. I have some friends connected with it. But, your topic
is abortion and maybe that's all you get to cover. I am a graduate CYW
in 2005 and work now as a director for a Youth for Christ, Upper Deck
Youth Centre in Southwestern Ontario.
If you would like to contact me for more thoughts on this matter, my
email is joec@swoyfc.com
Joe
...
Hi Candice,
What a provocative topic and I suspect that it will generate a lot of
thoughts and emotions that might not make it to a written response.
Decisions to terminate pregnancies are so individual and personal, as
are decisions to surrender the infant for adoption or to parent. This is
complicated by issues of rape and incest. Your inquiry also brings forth
the question of when does the fetus become a person, at conception or
when it can survive outside of the womb. I am respectfully suggesting
that until there is a definitive answer beyond the interfere of politics
and religion, your quest will be bias as it will be based on your values
and beliefs.
Repectfully,
Monica Metzler
Edmonton, AB
...
Hi Candice – I found some good articles on this
website, not sure if it would be relevant to what you are looking for.
Use their search.
www.cmaj.ca
Cheryl
...
Hey,
So I'm writing in response to your question regarding abortion. I
believe that abortion shouldn't be viewed as abuse in all cases. If you
were working in a group home, group care, or any residential program and
you had a young female client approach you and disclose that she was
pregnant...yet you knew that she was a drug and/or alcohol user and that
her having this baby would cause major problems to the child (ex:
addiction issues, FADS, or even still born), then I believe it would be
in the young females best interest to view all her options, including
abortion.
On top of that, if you have the same situation but she also discloses
that she was raped or forced into sexual intercourse without consent,
then I believe that it would also be in her best interest to know all of
her options. Even with all this considered, I believe in informing of
all options (keeping the child, adoption, or abortion) first and not
advocating that abortion be their only option. It is situations or
scenarios such as those that makes me advocate that abortion should not
be viewed as abuse.
Thanks for taking the time to read my personal opinion. Good luck with
your assignment!
Jessica M
...
Hi Candice,
You have chosen a very difficult, but interesting topic. I doubt very
much that you will find any real empirical, reliable studies on this
subject. Any material you will find is likely to be strongly
"opinionated". Perhaps that is the challenge in your paper? There will
be arguments for both "sides", and it is essentially a moral question.
It would be very difficult therefore to argue one "side" of this
question. I think the questions you are asking are very valid ones
however, and perhaps your paper should not try to answer this question,
as much as asking more questions, and asking the "right" questions to
stimulate more debate. By the way, on a more personal note, I agree with
your position. I look forward to following the discussion on this one!
Good luck,
Werner van der Westhuizen
Port Elizabeth, South Africa
...
Hi Candice,
I have struggled with this issue all my life. Especially during my
wife's pregnancies with our 2 daughters. Depending on the circumstances
facing us the balance between our own self interest and that of
subscribing to universal rights can oscillate. I was forced to think
again when listening to this BBC radio 4 programme on stem cell
research. It appears that even God is confused as those claiming to be
his voice on earth are sometimes at odds.
I would suggest listening to the programme if only for the ethical
dilemma presented around the saving of one live baby over 5 000 embryos.
Go to
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/beyond_belief/index.shtml
and choose the 3rd September prog.
Cheers, Jeremy
The Robert Gordon University
A Scottish charity registered under charity number SCO 13781.
...
Hi Candice,
What a loaded topic! Sort of like politics and religion... We have come
a long way (baby?)! Looking back historically, women in our country
fought long and hard for the right of choice. Previously there were many
unfortunate and unnecessary deaths due to unsanitary and neglectful
conditions from people performing abortions, including women themselves.
Our societal norms have changed immensely and thankfully today there are
many support services available for those young women that choose to
continue their pregnancy. However, even though things have changed, some
things stay the same. For most, choosing to keep their children will
constrain the future of both mother and child. Many of our youth do not
have the family supports to assist with the lifelong task of parenting.
Many of our youth have not resolved their own personal issues of being
parented. As someone who has worked with female adolescents for many
years, the bottom line is, I need to be supportive of their choice. This
may mean setting up counseling so they can make as fully informed a
choice as possible, and providing ongoing services to respect those
choices. Staying focused to the needs of the individual is my job as a
Child & Youth Worker and working together to support our youth is our
responsibility as a profession. Now, who is everyone voting for?
Good luck:)))
Diane Rapkoski
Ontario, Canada
...
Hi Everyone,
I have to say that I would agree with Doug if we approached the topic
purely from a legal perspective. However, the many responses do seem to
indicate that there is something worth discussing here, and if it is a
matter of people's personal beliefs, then as far as I'm concerned, so be
it. I am not totally convinced that we always serve the best interest of
children by being completely "objective" and avoiding the tough stuff. I
am actually quite open in stating that my moral convictions do play a
major role in shaping how I respond to the needs of children and youth,
and although some will disagree, I think that makes me a better
practitioner. It certainly does not mean that I impose my beliefs on
other. There is more than one way to be helpful to children. I don't
want to steer the discussion in a different direction, but I think there
should be room for those of us who have strong beliefs, both personal
and professional, about the topic of abortion.
Werner van der Westhuizen
Port Elizabeth, South Africa
...
I think that is the hardest part of the
job-putting your beliefs aside. What I would do is to tell the mother to
research this option well. This is a decision that will affect her for
the rest of her life. Why? Because before a girl goes ahead with the
actual procedure of abortion, she has an ultrasound to see whether there
is more than one baby and she finds out the baby's estimated date of
birth. I was trained in pregnancy counseling and I know what actually
goes on during the procedure. After I did this research, I completely
changed my mind about abortion. What they don't tell you is that even
before you find out you're pregnant, your baby's heart is beating and
the brain and kidneys have developed. They usually do these abortions in
the 10th or 11th week when the baby is fully formed-he's just very
little. Another thing they don't tell you is that the baby can feel pain
and fear.
When the person doing the procedure enters his home (the uterus) with a
metal rod & a suction device, the baby squirms away from it, but he
can't beat the scary device. It grabs hold of him and rips out all his
limbs and tears him to pieces. After the procedure is done and the girl
is put in a waiting room for 15 minutes, the doctor puts the baby
together like a puzzle to make sure that all the body pieces have been
removed. Any remains might cause infection. You don't believe me? Check
it out for yourselves: Google it or YouTube it. I would tell my youths
to do it too. And why do you think there is such thing as Post-Abortion
Depression? A girl might regret her decision.
Immediately after the abortion, a girl literally and emotionally feels
EMPTY. This is when they might turn to alcohol & drugs or becomes
depressed or angry. Some might become more promiscuous due to low
self-esteem or some might be scared to get involved in future
relationships. Some might not show any signs yet, but it does catch up
to them later in life. I'm sorry for the graphic detail, but it's the
TRUTH. Abstinence is truly the best way to prevent this. It's too bad
this society (T.V shows, T.V personalities, Music lyrics, Music Videos)
accepts, glamorizes and encourages teen sex.
KM
...
Hello all,
What a topic, it makes everyone to think, not only women, also men!
The question I have is who makes these kinds of rules, laws, and etc.
are where are they coming from? Religiously, if a woman goes through
abortion is against God, and Church, Mosque, and Senega makes you feel
guilty! Now, how many of these places help a woman, or a family with a
new born baby?? Do not we have enough children in the world that have no
food to eat? No school to attend? Die in war or .....?
Personally I think is more guilt (setting a child up to fail and setting
a child up to be abused) if anyone allow a human being comes to this
world without being prepared for it. Politically, I believe in a
capitalism system, abortion may view as an abuse, because if any woman
allow her baby comes to this world regardless of the living condition,
it will add another child labourer to the market! Why should do
abortion, when we can use the children (make profit out of them in rugs
factories, or shoes companies) then kill them or they die eventually!
Conclusion: I also do not think that only women can make the choice to
do it or not, it must be mutual between partners if there is...Killing a
human being is not good in any sort, but sometimes we have to make a
choice between bad and worse.
Ramin
...
Hello
I impose my moral and ethical beliefs every day. I always tell the kids
that I work with that lying, stealing, cheating, setting up others and
assaulting others is harmful and is not socially acceptable.
Gene
...
Candice,
It sounds to me like you're grappling personally with how it can be
possible for abortion not to be a crime or considered a form of child
abuse – since it kills kids?
If what I'm hearing is right, then I would suggest you look closely at
some of the opposing arguments with intentions for understanding and
respecting their perspectives as well. I agree with Evelyn Downie – the
argument is about the definition of life in terms of when it begins. For
example, while Pro-Lifers might say that life begins at conception – therefore abortion is the murder of an individual person who is living
inside another individual at the time, Pro-Choicers might say that life
begins at birth – a pregnant woman is but one person that has 2 (or more
if she's conceived twins, etc.) heads, noses, etc and 4 hands, feet,
ears...(you get the picture) until she gives birth to another individual
person. It's also been pointed out that there is a third argument – that
some point between conception and birth is when human life begins.
As a student, you may also want to be aware that some
courses/instructors may lean more one way than the other, too! For
example, it is possible that an instructor might suggest that the debate
is over and life indeed begins before birth because recent research
findings indicate that there is much more (and pretty remarkable) fetal
development in the womb than we ever knew about before. I'd urge you to
keep in mind, however, that regardless of what is discovered about the
degree and nature of development of a fetus, assumptions are still being
made as to what nature and degree of development might ultimately
constitute individual human life and when it begins.
Self-awareness: We must know our own values and how they do or can
influence our work with others. Also, please do not simply look to the
law or to others to tell you what is right/wrong, ethical, logical,
abuse or murder. For example, the last 2 terms are, but are not limited
to being legal terms, and laws are to be based on morals, not the other
way around. I agree with Doug that it is important that Child and Youth Care practitioners do not impose our own personal or religious values on the
kids with whom we work. I also believe it is ethical, responsible and
professional to decline working with a child/youth on a subject matter
if you know you cannot equally present all available options. It happens
all the time in our field and others too. In this way, workers do not
feel that they must suppress their true beliefs and compromise their own
integrity in order to do their jobs professionally, such as feeling the
need to promote abortion as a viable option to a pregnant teen when you
really feel abortion is murder.
Good topic, Candice. The sharing of your dynamic project grapplings
stimulates most constructive introspection for others regardless of
their existing positions on the topic – thank you!
Davey
Vancouver, BC
...
I was going to stay out of this, but KM and
Werner van der Westhuizen, posts drew me in.
I wonder how a morality that suggests that abortion is acceptable might
be judged? A complicating aspect of this for me is that my wife and I
just had a baby boy 4 weeks ago and he is the greatest ever. And I
accept (much as I am sure the other side does) that the Right to Life
position picks and chooses on issues of humanity and care for the
living. An individual's right to control their own body is that, their
own right. I cringe when I hear the myth often proposed by
anti-abortionists that advocates and practitioners of abortion are
somehow lying to or not telling women who consider abortion all the
risks and consequences of ending their pregnancy. How much do we hear on
this side (pro-choice) that anti-abortion/pro-life (itself a
disingenuous category; pro-choicers are not anti-life) do not consider
the results of bringing a child into a world of poverty, drug abuse,
world hunger, genocide, global climate change etc. I accept that
adoption is an option and that it requires the mother to carry the baby
to full term, perhaps in disregard for the many challenges a mindful
pregnancy should be present to.
The problem with this debate is a problem of cross-cultural and
interfaith dialogue. There are many positions, especially in my country
(USA) that are non-productive, partisan, wedge issues meant to divide
rather than bridge.
For me the premise of this thread is divisive. In my country (USA) many
of the most vehement and outspoken ant-abortion activists are white men
who have little activism or support for anti-poverty, welfare rights,
women's rights or multicultural diversity issues facing folks of color.
They want the kids to be safe to live, but quality of life... forget
about it. And then even we condemn the low-income folks with little
education, no health care, no daycare, etc for the plight that they got
into. "Shouldn't be having babies 'those welfare cheats."
And globally, many of the anti-abortion crowd are also ignorantly
pro-abstinence or against the use of protection or sex education that
isn't scary and false. Condoms? Birth control? What about the rights of
self-determination. What about eliminating poverty with a minimum wage
entitlement for all? My faith says as much about these such policies as
they do about the Right to Life (I am a Quaker). Policies that protect
fetuses run the risk of denying mothers self-determination. I am sure
others will ask about the self-determination of the fetus and for me the
fetus is apart of the woman's body until it is born and therefore her
right to choose (after education on all aspects- including those
identified by KM) what occurs. Oedipal needs and beliefs of others need
not apply.
Peter D
